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Thread: 2008 Impala SS - The Connected Car

  1. #41
    licensed to kill - FKA kev000
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    Here's a little graphic showing how power will flow:

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  2. #42
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    In semi-unrelated news, http://www.plugcomputer.org/index.ph...ting-pavilion/

    plugcomputer are having a small competition to get users' to demo at CES. I have entered the competition with obdgpslogger. Trip, you oughta try sending this in!

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev000 View Post
    Here's a little graphic showing how power will flow:

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    That's an intense battery setup. You should probably invest in a battery isolator, especially since you're using two different batteries.
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  4. #44
    Sheepdog rdholtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
    That's an intense battery setup. You should probably invest in a battery isolator, especially since you're using two different batteries.
    An isolator is one way to go, but it's the brute force approach. Isolators have gigantic heat sinks on them, which tells us they put out a lot of heat, and that means wasted power.

    I also have two very different battery systems in my car. One's the standard car battery, and the other is the auxiliary battery system, composed of three 7.2A deep-cycle batteries from a server battery backup system. But I don't use an isolator; a simple 40A relay does the trick. Here's the schematic:



    Click image to enlarge.

    When there's power in the ignition circuit, the relay closes, and allows the car's system to charge the auxiliary battery system. When the ignition is turned off and SW1 is Off, the relay opens and the system shuts down normally. When the ignition is turned off with SW1 On, the system still has power from the aux battery system, and can run until the PSU senses a low voltage status and does a shutdown. With the low voltage use of my Atom system, that takes a couple of days, at least.

    I've only been running this system for a few months, but a similar system has been running in Josh's Scion -- with a standard battery and an Optima -- for well over a year. There haven't been any hiccups along the way.
    .
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  5. #45
    Low Bitrate SoloconDeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev000 View Post
    Here's a little graphic showing how power will flow:

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    That is very similar set up to what I will eventually put in my new install. The Optima battery is the next purchase.
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  6. #46
    licensed to kill - FKA kev000
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdholtz View Post
    But I don't use an isolator; a simple 40A relay does the trick. Here's the schematic:
    A relay is a great idea. I like the idea that I have both batteries to keep the sheeva going, but I also like the idea of isolating the two, just in case... hmmm...
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  7. #47
    Raw Wave
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    That's the same system I use for Aux batteries but the relay is energised by the alternator's charge light circuit - hence it only connects the aux circuit when the vehicle is charging. Simple and reliable. And free of most "charge sharing" bullsh.
    (For vehicles without a suitable charge light circuit, an overvoltage-sensor is used, eg, above 13.5V energises the relay.)

  8. #48
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    I've always thought the relay approach was a good one and it seems to be working well for you. A couple of thoughts:

    1. I like the fail-safe setup of having the relay close when power is on. It keeps the battery isolated from the main car circuit unless everything is functioning perfectly.

    2. I know there can be some issues if the batteries in the circuit have differing resistances. If the car battery has more resistance than the computer battery or vice versa, there will be heat generated in one or the other. This is most likely when one of the batteries is near it's end of life. I *think* that a well designed battery isolator is supposed to help balance this.

    3. Differing voltages on the batteries will cause one to back charge the other. This should only be a problem if the car is not running but the ignition is on and both batteries are in the circuit. If it's the computer battery backcharging the car battery, no problem. All you have is a slightly lower voltage on the computer battery. If it's the other way around, it will depend on the voltage difference as to whether the car battery will be depleted enough to prevent the car from starting.

    Also, if you run the system with the car off for extended periods, both batteries will power the pc and you could possibly deplete the car's main battery without realizing it.

    I've seen a zener diode used in these instances so that the aux battery will only take a charge if the voltage is above 12 volts -like when the alternator is supplying 14.5 volts.
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  9. #49
    Sheepdog rdholtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbyte View Post
    . . . if you run the system with the car off for extended periods, both batteries will power the pc and you could possibly deplete the car's main battery without realizing it.

    I've seen a zener diode used in these instances so that the aux battery will only take a charge if the voltage is above 12 volts -like when the alternator is supplying 14.5 volts.
    Some of that can be resolved by having the relay sense the ignition circuit, but having a "cheater" switch that fools the PC circuit into thinking the ignition is on. The relay then separates the batteries, only tying them when the ignition is on. With the ignition off and the cheater switch off, the DC-DC power supply operates normally and shuts down the PC according to its setting. With the ignition off and the cheater switch on, the DC-DC power supply thinks the ignition is on (even though it's off), and the PC runs, but only on the auxiliary batteries. It still does a normal shutdown if the auxiliary battery voltage falls below the preset point.
    .
    If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect.

    2006 Scion xB with in-dash Atom & Lilliput 889GL -- Worklog at http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/work...res-links.html
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  10. #50
    Raw Wave
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    When using the charge sensing/connected system, differing battery resistances, sizes, ages etc are irrelevant. IE - if being charged at (say) 13.6V or above, no battery will be charging another battery etc.

    There is no need for any special circuity (any more than there is for any particular battery in a automotive system.... ie - what vehicles employ current limited charging for their main battery? Do they sense their temperatures too (except to vary charge/float voltage etc)?).


    Only when paralleled and not charging is there a problem.
    That only occurs if the charge lamp (etc) sensing is bypassed - eg, a manual bypass for exceptional use.
    But that is solved by other means - eg, a low voltage cutout (which the aux battery should have anyhow; in this case also deactivating the manual bypass to isolate the "discharged" aux & main battery.

    In a normal vehicle with charge lamp, it's just a relay (plus a fuse for each battery).
    Add a few diodes and momentary switches - and a low-voltage cutout - for manual bypass (on), and auto (low voltage) or manual off. Simple!

    Ignition controlled relays etc is not a recommended practice as you know....
    And other problems are normal problems - eg, determining a failed or failing battery etc.

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