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Thread: Getting rid of keys in my '02 Volvo S60

  1. #11
    Newbie Coda's Avatar
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    Just had a thought, you going to have a valet mode?

  2. #12
    FLAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplex View Post
    Good idea, bad implementation. You can do all this stuff (and much more) with a decent
    car alarm system and some custom electronics, for about the same price
    Please enlighten me on which "decent car alarm" systems will allow me to start the engine with the presence of bluetooth, then unlock the door with an RFID chip embedded in my hand, then allow shifting with a scan of a fingerprint for under $100.

    Quote Originally Posted by simplex View Post
    but without the insane "never dead battery" idea. By insane, I mean wasting fuel
    Barely any fuel. I'd rather waste 5 dollars worth of fuel than end up at work an hour late because I had to wait for someone to come jump start me.

    Quote Originally Posted by simplex View Post
    unnecessary pollution
    Depends what you deem necessary. It will probably only start itself once per 24 hours so the pollution is minimal. If it wasn't automatically started, I would have to start it anyway, so it's not like I'm changing anything from what it is right now. Except the convenience factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by simplex View Post
    not to mention problems when
    you leave the car indoors, for example in a garage, and the engine starts (exhaust gas can kill).
    Quote Originally Posted by Coda View Post
    Just had a thought, you going to have a valet mode?
    Good catch, I didn't think of that.. I'll program a valet mode into the sheeva plug and I'll program a command for it into my current remote control framework which will give me access through the internet, text, instant message, and centrafuse.
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  3. #13
    Constant Bitrate simplex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
    Please enlighten me on which "decent car alarm" systems will allow me to start the engine with the presence of bluetooth, then unlock the door with an RFID chip embedded in my hand, then allow shifting with a scan of a fingerprint for under $100.
    Well, about the RFID part, check this and this, $25 for a 4-door kit, $39.99 for ten.
    No fancy USB, simple analog solution, you can wire this to the central locking/alarm.

    I don't see a point in bluetooth remote engine starter, please explain.

    Well here's an alarm with sms text remote start, for $135.67.
    I just linked this as an example, as I recommend a GPS+GSM alarm system.

    Not to mention this, for $31.95

    I think you shouldn't use fingerprint reader, if you are using RFID for the lock, you can use it
    to start the car and unlock the shifter.

    So:
    Sensors on the doors: unlock the doors on proximity (of your hand this case),
    also the driver side door sensor puts the car in ACC mode and kills the alarm.

    Another sensor on the dash (for example): starts the engine, unlock the shifter.

    I don't meant to be rude, I'm just saying, you can do all this stuff in a more simple way,
    without this "never dead battery" thing, as the above system uses approx 1-2W

    Also about the costs: $135.67+$39.99 = $175.66 make it $200 with wiring and relays.

    Sheeva Plug is $99 itself and you also need Arduino, USB RFID reader, etc.
    Check my worklog:
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  4. #14
    FLAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplex View Post
    Well, about the RFID part, check this and this, $25 for a 4-door kit, $39.99 for ten.
    No fancy USB, simple analog solution, you can wire this to the central locking/alarm.
    The USB solution costs about 30 bucks. The ability to customize it is amazing though, plus it's digital. So one USB cable into the door back to the sheeva plug. To customize I can then link it to anything else the sheeva plug controls in the car. Instead of just unlocking the doors, I can set it to unlock the doors and turn the computer on. The list goes on.

    Quote Originally Posted by simplex View Post
    I don't see a point in bluetooth remote engine starter, please explain.
    Admittedly, the bluetooth start is more of a "because I can." It's extremely simple to setup, so I'm doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by simplex View Post
    Well here's an alarm with sms text remote start, for $135.67.
    I just linked this as an example, as I recommend a GPS+GSM alarm system.
    That's $135 right there, and I'll have to pay for a GSM cell phone plan to go with it. I already have an internet connection in my car and I already have the ability to text it reliably. I have a computer in my house set up as a server. It stays logged in to AIM in a C# program. It constantly communicates with the car too. So if the car needs to send a text, it sends the message to the server which then sends the text to me. If I need to text the car, I send it to the screen name and it sends it to the car over the web. If the internet connection is unreliable, it the message waits on either side. Right now as I walk to my car, I send it a text to turn the computer on. Works extremely well and reliably. It would be more expensive to pay another bill for cell phone plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by simplex View Post
    I think you shouldn't use fingerprint reader, if you are using RFID for the lock, you can use it
    to start the car and unlock the shifter.
    The issue with that is I may want to just open the door and not start the car.


    Quote Originally Posted by simplex View Post
    So:
    Sensors on the doors: unlock the doors on proximity (of your hand this case),
    also the driver side door sensor puts the car in ACC mode and kills the alarm.

    Another sensor on the dash (for example): starts the engine, unlock the shifter.

    I don't meant to be rude, I'm just saying, you can do all this stuff in a more simple way,
    without this "never dead battery" thing, as the above system uses approx 1-2W
    The hardware way is much more complicated though.. think about all the required wiring. Theres a USB hub in my dash already, simply hook the arduino into that. Run a USB extension into the door and plug the RFID reader into that. No new fuses, no new power cables, nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by simplex View Post
    Also about the costs: $135.67+$39.99 = $175.66 make it $200 with wiring and relays.
    Sheeva Plug is $99 itself and you also need Arduino, USB RFID reader, etc.
    I think you're coming at this as though I'm adding the sheeva plug for this specific purpose. I already have the sheeva plug in my car and use it quite a bit.

    Parts involved:
    -An arduino ($29.95)
    -An RFID reader ($40.95)
    -A Frequency to Voltage converter ($9.99)
    -Injectable RFID tag ($3.95)
    -I only need 5 relays and I have a whole drawer full of them on my work bench
    -I already have a fingerprint scanner laying around. I may cut that out of the picture too, but it's a cool feature and easy to add.
    -USB cables
    -A small project enclosure.
    $80 total.

    When I designed the main computer setup, I designed it in such a way that would make it easy to tack on features like these.
    My Nearly Complete Car:
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    Website: (It's a work in progress, really. All my projects have taken me from ever really developing it.)
    http://paulfurtado.com/

  5. #15
    Variable Bitrate
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    Very interesting PaulF. It seems like you've thought about this for quite some time. I do have a request, can you keep a worklog? I'm sure many people, myself included, will be interested in implementing this into their own cars.

    Just a suggestion, aren't their battery circuits that can be used to power the Sheeva? And then once this circuit/battery is depleted then power comes from the car battery?

  6. #16
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    Bluetooth
    When the Sheeva plug senses my phone connected via Bluetooth, it will tell the car to start, but will leave the shifter and doors locked.
    Are you planning on using Proximity for this?
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt11601 View Post
    Very interesting PaulF. It seems like you've thought about this for quite some time. I do have a request, can you keep a worklog? I'm sure many people, myself included, will be interested in implementing this into their own cars.
    That's why I made this work log.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt11601 View Post
    Just a suggestion, aren't their battery circuits that can be used to power the Sheeva? And then once this circuit/battery is depleted then power comes from the car battery?
    I sort of have this set up right now. Except it goes the other way around. I have a sheeva battery between the car battery and the sheeva plug. Theres a diode set up so the car can't draw any power from it, but the sheeva plug can. This way, if the battery dies or someone cuts some wires, I can still communicate with the car. I see no real reason to change this, since my battery lasts long enough most of the time and with the auto-start feature, I won't have to worry about this so much. For even more cushion, I may add solar panels to my install, but for now the last thing I need is another battery for my alternator to charge.


    Quote Originally Posted by kev000 View Post
    Are you planning on using Proximity for this?
    Fully intend on it. Why would I do it any other way? With proximity, you've already done half the work for me.
    My Nearly Complete Car:
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    Website: (It's a work in progress, really. All my projects have taken me from ever really developing it.)
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  8. #18
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    Fully intend on it. Why would I do it any other way? With proximity, you've already done half the work for me.
    Great! Glad to hear it'll come in handy for someone besides myself. Your goals parallel mine, so I look forward to see more.

    The RFID idea is a stroke of genius. How are you going to get that put in your skin? You going to have a doctor do it?
    Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
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  9. #19
    Constant Bitrate simplex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
    The USB solution costs about 30 bucks. The ability to customize it is amazing though, plus it's digital. So one USB cable into the door back to the sheeva plug. To customize I can then link it to anything else the sheeva plug controls in the car. Instead of just unlocking the doors, I can set it to unlock the doors and turn the computer on. The list goes on.
    As far as I know, you turn a computer on with a simple analog signal (+12V to the PSU for
    example) so you can do this with a relay too, you don't need shiva plug to this.

    The reader itsef digital, by analog, I mean it works like a simple switch.
    Even if you will use sheeva plug, I think you can keep the locking part simple, stupid,
    there's no need for a digital solution where you can use an analog.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
    Admittedly, the bluetooth start is more of a "because I can." It's extremely simple to setup, so I'm doing it.

    That's $135 right there, and I'll have to pay for a GSM cell phone plan to go with it. I already have an internet connection in my car and I already have the ability to text it reliably. I have a computer in my house set up as a server. It stays logged in to AIM in a C# program. It constantly communicates with the car too. So if the car needs to send a text, it sends the message to the server which then sends the text to me. If I need to text the car, I send it to the screen name and it sends it to the car over the web. If the internet connection is unreliable, it the message waits on either side. Right now as I walk to my car, I send it a text to turn the computer on. Works extremely well and reliably. It would be more expensive to pay another bill for cell phone plan.
    I dunno, you should calculate consumed petrol+battery wear vs GSM bills, it's your choice.
    In Europe, petrol is more expensive (approx 2-3 times vs USA), so I can cover the alarm's
    yearly (!!!) GSM costs for about the price of 2-3 gallons. (calculating 1 SMS a day)

    Anyway I still can't see a point here, above going James Bond/Knightrider style
    I mean, what kind of communication do you need with your car, above simple commands
    like "Please start" and messages like "They are stealing me".

    What kind of internet connection do you have in car?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
    The issue with that is I may want to just open the door and not start the car.
    You didn't read carefully, see below, I'm saying, you can put an other sensor on the dash,
    where you wanted to put the fingerprint reader, so if you want to start the car, you just
    have to touch that point (you can still implant the RFID chip in your hand)

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
    The hardware way is much more complicated though.. think about all the required wiring. Theres a USB hub in my dash already, simply hook the arduino into that. Run a USB extension into the door and plug the RFID reader into that. No new fuses, no new power cables, nothing.
    Yes, it's complicated, but reliable and has better power efficiency. This is like, you can
    wire a car audio system to the pc with amp, components, subwoofer, or just plug in the pc
    speakers.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
    I think you're coming at this as though I'm adding the sheeva plug for this specific purpose. I already have the sheeva plug in my car and use it quite a bit.

    Parts involved:
    -An arduino ($29.95)
    -An RFID reader ($40.95)
    -A Frequency to Voltage converter ($9.99)
    -Injectable RFID tag ($3.95)
    -I only need 5 relays and I have a whole drawer full of them on my work bench
    -I already have a fingerprint scanner laying around. I may cut that out of the picture too, but it's a cool feature and easy to add.
    -USB cables
    -A small project enclosure.
    $80 total.

    When I designed the main computer setup, I designed it in such a way that would make it easy to tack on features like these.
    I think even if you keep the sheeva plug, it's not the best thing to integrate it with the
    car's primitive, analog system.

    You can still wire the sheeva to the car alarm, so when it's triggered, it gives power to sheeva plug,
    and it sends you txt message. This way, sheeva only works if it really has to.

    I mean you are using a complex system for simple tasks:

    RFID reader -> USB -> Sheeva plug -> Arduino or Fusion Brain -> relays -> ignition & lock

    vs

    RFID reader -> wire -> relays -> ignition & lock

    It's like if you control the electric windows from the CarPC's touchscreen: it's cool, but
    unnecessary.

    As I said, the basic idea is good (especially the RFID implant part), but you are relying
    on the pc/sheeva plug too much. Try to think analog, and keep things simple, stupid
    Check my worklog:
    Corsa + Atom + Gentoo Linux + 9" capacitive touchscreen

    Lord of the boards: DFI CP100-NRM

    "Or you can try Ubuntu, but than don't tell everyone you are using linux,
    because it's just a secret unreleased prebeta of Windows 3829" :P

  10. #20
    Constant Bitrate txspazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplex View Post
    <snip>
    I mean you are using a complex system for simple tasks:

    RFID reader -> USB -> Sheeva plug -> Arduino or Fusion Brain -> relays -> ignition & lock

    vs

    RFID reader -> wire -> relays -> ignition & lock

    It's like if you control the electric windows from the CarPC's touchscreen: it's cool, but
    unnecessary.

    As I said, the basic idea is good (especially the RFID implant part), but you are relying
    on the pc/sheeva plug too much. Try to think analog, and keep things simple, stupid
    Even easier is to just use a key.

    I had a similar conversation with someone on another forum recently. All this work to avoid carrying a key so you have a complex system that creates other isues like battery drain?

    Are you the only person that uses your vehicle? Will you still be able to just hand your keys to a valet or a mechanic?

    I can see a benefit of not having to dig a key out of your pocket to unlock a door when your hands are full but there are easy ways to deal with this using RFID.

    If I'm following you, you have to send a text to start the engine or can you use the key?

    I guess I just don't get it.

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