Thread: 99 Honda Civic - Black Box 1

Okay, so I decided to not wait for a paycheck and just go ahead to order some parts for the carputer (go go gadget credit card!). I went on Amazon and ordered a Soliport ELM 327 OBDII, bluetooth adapter, and a voltage sensor. Hopefully the OBDII device will be able to read everything like I want it to (I don't really need a fast refresh, just want it to work). Also, the bluetooth dongle will be able to pair my phone and then I can start trying to do fun things with that. These will be the first two projects that I try to tackle for the summer. To sum things up:

- USB to Bluetooth Dongle (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o00_s01_i00)
- Bluetooth OBDII connector (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o01_s00_i00)
- Bluetooth sync my phone to computer

The voltage meter (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o00_s01_i01) will be to test my battery voltage levels and make sure that my strange starting issue is definitely my battery that is going bad. I would like to replace the battery ASAP if it is giving me low voltage since it is probably overworking my alternator and would therefore wear it faster! Once all the stuff ships out to me, I will put it in and post some results. Most of this is really just software and simple plugging in so I suppose I won't have too many pictures, but I will snap a few anyways.

Additionally, my short term plans include:

- Remount the screen in a fitted enclosure (will custom make)
- Change wiring for Inverter
- Change battery wiring
- Loosen Alternator belt (it squeals a bit because I made it too tight)
- Order primary and secondary batteries (?? for primary and Kinetik for secondary)

Ugh, I really need to get paid because I have a lot of stuff to get done lol..

I'd suggest a voltmeter that monitors the battery direct rather than the cig socket. You may misdiagnose a low reading, and miss overcharging.
And I'd suggest 3 digit (eg, 12.7) - 4 digits will drive you nuts.

And a cap won't be necessary for your audio system - it's too small to damage a reasonable AGM battery.

Originally Posted by OldSpark

I'd suggest a voltmeter that monitors the battery direct rather than the cig socket. You may misdiagnose a low reading, and miss overcharging.
And I'd suggest 3 digit (eg, 12.7) - 4 digits will drive you nuts.

And a cap won't be necessary for your audio system - it's too small to damage a reasonable AGM battery.

Yeah I know for a fact that my battery is toast so this simple meter would really just be for quick measurements that I can read from inside the car without any hassle. I figure that this is pretty much just a temporary fix that I will eventually replace with a hardwired voltmeter that somehow outputs to the carpc screen. As for the replacement battery, my only issue is that an agm battery for the starting battery would be much more expensive. But I do certainly want agm for my system so that it can run the battery low without damaging it. Also, it can't hurt to prepare for future upgrades that I may want to add, like a more powerful 4channel amp. Plus it never hurts anything but my wallet to be overprepared. But I have been thinking about just getting one agm with enough wattage and be done with it. Certainly going to think about it and research some more. Thank you for the advice

Except for rarely use cars and a few other cases, I NEVER recommend AGM batteries for cranking.
It's only in non-vented enclosures where flooded cells are illegal else unwise that AGMs are recommended.

Also in cases where low source resistance is required, but the audio scene contradicts itself a lot on that. (EG - they want caps or AGMs for peak currents, yet many claim higher peak SPLs with caps removed, ergo higher SPLs with flooded cells. And AFAIK & understand, that's a valid claim & observation.)

Originally Posted by duncanator24

But I do certainly want agm for my system so that it can run the battery low without damaging it.

I don't know where you got that from. If anything, you'd want a flooded cell, but the ability to run a battery low is not dependent on its type (ie, AGM, gel, wet). However AGMs are more prone to damage if not recharged ASAP after discharging. [As a general rule, AGMs are less robust than wet cells.]


As to the voltmeter, if money is not an issue, then go ahead.
Otherwise a DMM is usually sufficient until you get a "proper" voltmeter.
And any carpc should be capable of reading the battery voltage - it's merely a voltage input.
The important thing is where it's being measure. A vehicle's charging system voltage is based on the voltage across the battery's +ve & -ve terminals, nothing else. (Except for temperature, and occasional battery type differences.)

Okay that makes sense. I must have been misinformed. What is a good wet cell battery? This is an answer that I have not been able find. Everyone keeps directing me to companies that only produce dry cell agm batteries. Is optima the solution? I've heard mixed reviews. I'd really like to spend under 150 if possible.

Do Optima make wet cells?
But I don't recommend Optima anyway. They were once good, but I have heard much bad since, and their e-Sales Manager Optima Jim was unable to counter such claims on mp3car a (few?) year(s) back.
Some swear by them, but I think far more swear at them.
IMO, there are far more successful batteries, and they are cheaper. (eg, Kinetik in USA; Deka here in Aus, and I'm gonna try a bigger version of my Yuasa UPS battery if I get another AGM.)


As to wet cells, I'm lucky enough to have found a great battery supplier. Their batteries have always been good, and cheaper than my former supplier (kMart, Target etc - probably the equivalent to Walmart).
I should find out what brand it is, they have their own label.
I suspect Century-Yuasa. I've had a long love affair with Yuasa that stemmed from younger motorcycling days, and has only been reconfirmed by examples of 23-year old alarm batteries, and the IMO "undersized & unsuitable" AGM UPS battery that's been powering a few vehicles for several years.
[ That was how I met my current (and voltage LOL) supplier - much cheaper than bike shops. But it wasn't until years later I noted his car batteries. Stupid me! The rest is history. ]


I'd be curious why others have suggested AGMs, but I suspect it's the usual "general case" else uninformed info that goes around - especially in car-audio forums. I think I have written enough on mp3car to dispel else qualify most such misinformation.


FYI - an Optima yellow of ~70AH retails here for ~AUD$550 though is typically ~$450.
That compares to "my equivalent" wet cell for ~$120 which last 6-8 years (even with MY abuse!, and I only converted from older external regulated alternators a few years ago).
And if comparing the ~$500 100AH Yuasa UXH100-12 UPS battery to a 70AH $450 yellow top, I know which one I'd take. From what I understand, my 38AH UXH38-12 has already outlasted what any Optima would do.

The above highlights the difficulty comparing our prices. Our batteries are bluddy expensive in comparison!
Optimas are usually for the bling crowd, else those that think they need them.
But I know quite a few that stick with them despite having failures after 3 months!
Dear o dear, it's as if I'm out to bash Optima. I'm not - it occurs naturally.

Yeah, the difference in location doesn't help very much in choosing a brand lol. I know that Kinetik only produces Dry-Cell AGM batteries (Their sales rep recommended that I use a 1400W AGM for cranking -- I just assumed he is trying to sell product). Anyways, I may just end up getting whatever I find at the local autozone and then trying a kinetik as a second battery one day. I don't think that I am really running enough power through the system to require a special battery. It will be much quicker to pick it up from the store anyways. Id just like to not damage my alternator any further with the junky battery in there now.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...30111_27319_0_

At least it sounds like the Kinetik dude is specifying an over-sized AGM to make up for their dislike of high currents...
Many wouldn't do that, and then buyers wonder why their AGM doesn't last as long as the equivalent sized wet cell.
Of course that varies depending on just how strained that sized battery is for the starter etc. And reduction starters will have far less battery strain.
And it's a case of relativities - maybe the number and depth of charge-discharge cycles kills the battery long before the discharge or cranking strain does.

Originally Posted by duncanator24

....[not]... running enough power through the system to require a special battery.

Power does not require a "special" battery wrt to being wet or AGM etc. It is only the SIZE of the battery that matters - eg, to have enough battery reserve if NOT charging with the load, and to not overstress the battery (ie, too high a current for that size and type - eg, a wet-cell cranker can be smaller than an AGM or wet-cell deep-cycle etc).

Power draw dictates the size of the alternator.
That has 2 considerations:
- that the alternator is large enough to provide the required voltage at a certain load (eg, do you want 14.4V or <12.6V for high-volumes from big amps, or full brightness from halogen headlights etc?),
- or if the above voltage isn't that important, is the alternator sufficiently large to adequately recharge the battery by the end of the drive?

Remember that in a typical or normal vehicle system, it is the alternator that supplies the load, not the battery.
The battery is only there for shortfalls - eg, cranking (because there is no charging alternator), load transients, and overloads (big loads, or during idling etc).
But the battery is also an important filter - like a big cap, it absorbs spikes and fills sags.


IMO alternators should not be damaged by bad batteries and overloads. However, there are limits, and reality is different.
A well designed alternator should be somewhat self-limiting wrt to max output.
And it should have enough thermal inertia and diode ratings etc to handle typical extremes.
But the above 2 reasons are why I ditched Bosch alternators a while ago - they just could not handle jump starts or flat batteries (their main diodes were underrated).

I did have one Hitachi fail, but that was after 1 hour of extremes.
And it proved to be a mere un-soldering of its sensing diode. IE - it was so overloaded and abused that it got hot enough to melt internal solder. But otherwise it was still ok - no blown diodes or wiring (though they may have been degraded...)

Okay, so I purchased a Duralast Gold Battery from Autozone today. It is rated for 500CCA and I got it for $120 (after the core return). Also, it includes an 8 year warranty and 3 year free replacement policy. So I am certainly glad with that purchase and now I can consider my options later if I want to add another battery. While I was at it, I replaced the positive terminal connector (the old one didn't fit very well and it was beat up from hammering it on in the past). Also, I re-crimped the positive connection to my amps in order to sure up my power supply (It will not come out now , even when tugged on hard). Everything turned out well and now I should not have to ever worry about my battery being uncharged again. I will take some pictures of the old terminal just to show how bad it was and I havent uploaded any 'under the hood' photos so I will take that also (I.E next post will be pics).

Moving on, I ordered the bluetooth dongle but I did not think to order a microphone! Silly me.. I am also trying to find different android solutions for the hands-free calling. I don't really know what windows software would integrate that but I may just start with an onscreen controller for my phone (so that the notification will appear on the computer screen, but it will just be mirroring my phone instead of the permanent solution of forwarding it over bluetooth). Software is very mind boggling to me sometimes and a lot of the times it just boils down to figuring out exactly what I need (and the right words to describe it in google). My order of things to do right now are
(1). OBDII integration
(2). Cell calls integration
(3). Better Navigation software (need suggestions)
(4). SMS/Email integration (trying to avoid mirroring my phone for this)
(5). Work on the ground loop (it is nowhere near as apparent anymore, but its still there)