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Thread: 2006 MazdaSpeed 6 Audio Test Lab

  1. #111
    Car Audio Moderator durwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sporty_drew View Post
    Sounds cool. I love how versatile the Fusion Brain is, and making skins for it is a breeze. I'll look into those sound cards. And thanks for the cpu load info. I was wondering how it was.
    Do you have a fusion brain? I started to follow it when they were first designing it, but I got busy with other things and have to go back and catch up. How are you using it if you have it?

  2. #112
    Maximum Bitrate sporty_drew's Avatar
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    I bought it for a friends install. We are just using it for 8 outputs to relays which are controlling lights (cathodes, leds, iceled) That is all that he wanted to do with it. I know, i know what a waste with everything it can do.
    1998 Camaro Worklog Starting over, New setup for 2010

  3. #113
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    question for ya about the tuning via software:

    do you have it so that all of the programs start at start-up?

    do you have to go in and adjust anything on start-up? I know you're using hibernation, but what about just start-up?
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

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  4. #114
    Car Audio Moderator durwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6 View Post
    question for ya about the tuning via software:

    do you have it so that all of the programs start at start-up?

    do you have to go in and adjust anything on start-up? I know you're using hibernation, but what about just start-up?
    Once I save the setup in console, I just created a shortcut to the setup/config files and put it in the windows startup folder. It takes a few seconds for it to load it up but it does load it up. The thing with my card is that WDM is muted in the driver control panel (directwire) so unless console is running, nothing comes out of my soundcard and that was one of my fears. I'm not sure how that would work with any of the other methods besides Directwire.

    When it comes out of hibernation is stumbles for a few seconds (sounds similar to a CD skipping), but then it is fine. I imagine that is just how ASIO reacts since it is picky like that. I might try to do some fancy smancy stuff in RR to turn off console as it hibernates and then turn it back on during resume.

    Update: I tossed in my PAC TR7 for the time being and I have it delay turn on, no more turn on pop! That should hold me off until I pick up the Fusion brain. Last final thing to do is get better volume control. My long time installer buddy heard it tonight and said my car has never sounded better, and I haven't even begun to tweak it with any EQ work. Now he is itching to do a PC with software processing and admits the H701 sounds like poo poo compared to it.

  5. #115
    Super Moderator. If my typing sucks it's probably because I'm driving.... turbocad6's Avatar
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    tr7's are like duct tape, you can use it for almost anything

    durwood, what your saying is pretty strong, it sounds better with no eq'ing than it did with the 701 fully tuned? that's saying a lot, but I'm not 100% sure exactly what.

    my first thoughts are, if this is really the case, maybe the 701 install had something not right? maybe level matching is more ideal now? maybe it wasn't tuned as good as it could have been, or overprocessed?

    I remember once in a thread somewhere in a discussion with red, we were talking about the quality of the components in the 700-701 processors, & of course while the alpine is an amazing piece in it's own way, it obviously comes with the tradeoff of less than optimal components in the signal path. the alpine is amazing to me because before it, you needed like 3-4 seperate components to do the same job, & you didn't have a nice gui interface to it on the dash,

    but I always felt a slightly less... something with the alpine, the best way I can discribe it is to me it sounded just a bit more digital almost, if that makes any sense, slightly less warmth & detail, but in a new install too, so I never had the chance for side to side comparison really.... I always felt the 700-701was a trade-off, but acceptable for what all it did, especially for just a street system.

    for the convienience & ease of use & great interface it's been a viable option for a good while now... I used to want to upgrade to the pxa h900, with the though of, THAT'S the difference between the f1 status units & the budget minded 700-701's, the actual components in the signal path

    so, is that what your hearing? is there that much of a difference in the components in the signal path now? to what would you atribute such a dramatic diffence that it sounds better even before tunning???

  6. #116
    Car Audio Moderator durwood's Avatar
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    Well one night when I was tuning I finally heard the low level hiss coming from the rear channels (midbass) that people complain about. I'd been having problems with my midbass drivers and there was some sort of weird phasing issues is the best way I can describe it. There always seemed like a null in the midbass on the drivers side no matter how much TA or level matching I did. Then there was a null in the upper midrange/lower treble I could never fix on the passenger side??? It might have been that with the sub crossover point so low and the narrow band the midbasses were crossover at, it may have been asking too much from the processor. I don't know I'm just speculating.

    It could be the level of adjustability is greater now, level can be adjusted in 0.1db increments where as the 701 is only 1db, TA can be adjusted within 0.01ms, alpine 0.05ms. I'm not sure what frequency arbitrator does in terms of crossover phase correction, but somehow it "corrects" the phase form frequency allocator. That could also play a part. I also heard a little rumor that the Alpine's digital crossovers are not accurate. I have yet to see proof of such an accusation so I plan on testing that once I pull it out of my car. I'll just say I've never had as much a of a solid center image as I do now.

    All in all, The alpine is still a great piece. It can do so much processing that most of the others can't do. For the price, it really can't be touched. The Behringer with the new DC power supply comes close, but it's still only 6 channel not 8 channel. I mean there are alot of great sounding cars out there using the alpine and I'd not be afraid to use it again. It's one of those things where once you start to have ultimate adjustablity and great quality components its hard to go back.

    I had a look inside Alpine and they use standard 4580 opamps on their preamp. I don't know what DACs they use inside the 701, but I'm sure that plays a factor. And the last issue is usually clock jitter. But like I said at the 701 price range, what else is there?

    I've got to get 8 more points and then I'm eligible for MECA finals. I wasn't really excited about going because I just never felt it was up to my par and recent tuning issues were getting me down, but now I'm revived again and I really feel like trying to make it again. We will have to see.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbocad6 View Post
    durwood, what your saying is pretty strong, it sounds better with no eq'ing than it did with the 701 fully tuned? that's saying a lot, but I'm not 100% sure exactly what.

    my first thoughts are, if this is really the case, maybe the 701 install had something not right? maybe level matching is more ideal now? maybe it wasn't tuned as good as it could have been, or overprocessed?
    The 701 is a great piece, don't get me wrong, but the 701 does have a number of issues...we're running into them currently and it's limiting our ability to get the most out of our system.

    This is why the 701 is in the price point that it's in...adn why Alpine makes the F#1 processors...because the 701 has some limitations...

    so, is that what your hearing? is there that much of a difference in the components in the signal path now? to what would you atribute such a dramatic diffence that it sounds better even before tunning???
    A properly set-up system, with EQ points done correctly, won't need much EQing at all...mostly to firm up imiging and to work out some minor issues with tonality.

    The sound card he's using also has replacable opamps, something the alpine doesn't have....

    I've thought about sending in my 701 to have it reworked and upgraded in various ways...but I think it would be just as good to implement tuning on the PC.
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by durwood View Post
    Well one night when I was tuning I finally heard the low level hiss coming from the rear channels (midbass) that people complain about
    REALLY annoying isn't it?


    All in all, The alpine is still a great piece. It can do so much processing that most of the others can't do. For the price, it really can't be touched. The Behringer with the new DC power supply comes close, but it's still only 6 channel not 8 channel. I mean there are alot of great sounding cars out there using the alpine and I'd not be afraid to use it again. It's one of those things where once you start to have ultimate adjustablity and great quality components its hard to go back.
    everything I've ever heard about Behringer equipment is that it's mediocre at best....which after asking some of my buddies that have been doing studio recording for some time now confirmed...

    I've got to get 8 more points and then I'm eligible for MECA finals. I wasn't really excited about going because I just never felt it was up to my par and recent tuning issues were getting me down, but now I'm revived again and I really feel like trying to make it again. We will have to see.
    If USACi finals wasn't the same weekend, I would have gotten points to go to MECA finals this year....maybe next year Ralph won't drag his feet on setting a date for USACi finals...
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

  9. #119
    Car Audio Moderator durwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6 View Post
    REALLY annoying isn't it?
    Yes it is!

    everything I've ever heard about Behringer equipment is that it's mediocre at best....which after asking some of my buddies that have been doing studio recording for some time now confirmed...
    Ya I wouldn't expect super amazing sound, but it does use some decent quality stuff and I've heard the suer interface is easier to use than the alpine. Apparently, the biggest mod that really helps is an upgraded output board that swaps out the 4580 opamps and does some other things as well. ezaudio is also thinking of developing an upgraded output board that would also tie in a remote mounted volume control. he recently started a thread about that on DIYMA as well.

    If USACi finals wasn't the same weekend, I would have gotten points to go to MECA finals this year....maybe next year Ralph won't drag his feet on setting a date for USACi finals...
    Well from what I read a while ago, having uasc finals on the same date this year is really screwing MECA too. Last I read MECA couldn't get any sponsers because of the date conflict and the cost was going to be driven up because of it. I have to go check to see if that is still the case.

    Edit: Here it is:

    I've rented 2 buildings for SPL vehicles. All vehicles will have to be pushed into and out of the lanes. All Fire Marshall laws will be enforced, so that will cost us more, since we have to have a Fire Marshall on-site, and our vehicles and the way we do things will be under more scrutiny than any previous event.
    The cost of entry fees are going up, for sure, and will be $150 for SPL and Drive-by SPL Parade. If you qualify for both, there's no extra fee.
    The same for SQL entries: $150 fee for SQ, Install, and RTA Freq Out, with proper qualification.
    I am working on a discount for those members who do both.
    I'm sorry that anyone who competed in previous Finals Soundfests feels crapped on or 2nd rate. That was not intentional. I am working to make everyone feel as comfortable, equal, and satisfied as possible, as always.
    Spectators will have a more difficult time seeing the action, but we will try to give them a good viewing area.
    Get ready to push
    BTW, at this time there are no sponsors for this event. I have been working since May to try to secure sponsors. There is a conflict in the 12-volt industry schedule now with USACi doing their event on the same weekend, and we are getting the short end of the stick....actually, at this time no stick.
    Given that fact, I am working harder than ever to find a sponsor, or sponsors, for our event.
    There is still plenty of time to compete and qualify for our Finals Soundfest, and it is not too late to add event to the Event Schedule.

  10. #120
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    Yeah - Ralph is falling back on the excuse that USACi finals has always been on that weekend...but it doesn't change the fact that he drug his feet setting the date...

    I think in the long run, everyone looses.
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

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